A public debate

JH

Fri Nov 6 2009 16:42

Why are the people who approve of the extermination of a child in the womb so offended by these pictures? Why would the depiction of such a priceless "right" of the People, be so vile to those who embrace it?

Why is it that the "right" to an abortion could only be found in an alleged "penumbra" of the Constitution, and not in the wording of the Constitution itself? Why did the Supreme Court have to rely on the fiction of a "penumbra," in order to find a "right"? Why would the framers of the Constitution be so callous in their omission of something so priceless, so as to not even express it in any form, including by implication? Why is it that those who approve of the extermination of a child in the womb have to use the euphemisms of "fetus," or "women's health care"? Why do they have to avoid the use of "child," "baby" or "person"? Why is it that abortion is always bathed in a fiction, or in deception?

Abortion is the destruction of humanity in the womb.

It is the sacrifice of a child to the gods - Narcissism and Hedonism. The womb is now the altar of sacrifice - to the self. And always remember, according to the new religion of the self, if a child in the womb gets in your way, destroy it. Sacrifice it to the self.

Enjoy the pictures. Relish them. They portray your precious "right," in all its glory.

Meg

Thu Nov 5 2009 23:15

So Justin would also find it acceptable for a peace group to show enormous gory pictures of children with limbs blown off by bombs, because college should be a place where activism is welcomed and encouraged?

Resa

Thu Nov 5 2009 09:12

Justin, the only reason it was bothering people is that they were trying to go to lunch, there was no opposing view presented until the second day (which by that point we already knew they would be there a second day so we avoided the place completely), and there are children present on this campus who play in that same place. None of those kids may have been mine, but I would not have wanted to subject them to those images.

Secondly, what I saw was not educational. We all know the reality of being forced to make such a decision that will affect you for the rest of your life. This is something that should be a private choice between a woman, her possible partner, her doctor and God. Not some group trying to "educate" me by presenting me with one view only and removing all choice in the matter.

I am a non-trad student who is older than the majority of my peers, and professors in most cases, and I should get a say in how my fees went to a group who throw such narrow minded opinions down my throat in such a visible way in front of children and guests on our campus. Setting up a booth or holding a discussion on campus is one thing, this was something entirely different. Heaven forbid if I was ever forced to have to make such a decision - no matter how it came about- and have this shame and guilt forced upon me by individuals who have no idea who I am or what my life is about on top of having to deal with coming to whatever decision to begin with. Members of the student body who were offended should have a right to demand their fees do not go to support such demonstrations on our lawn in the future, especially when only one view was presented. I fail to see how causing offense and disgust can educate anyone.

Justin

Wed Nov 4 2009 23:54

The only reason its bothering people is because they dont want to face the reality of what abortion really is. No theyre not pretty but college is a place where activism is welcomed and encouraged. Maybe it should have been put in a room rather than on a lawn. But people turning away in disgust rather than insulting its existence on the lawn should think about what they saw. I dont personally agree with it being on the lawn but I pray that it served its purpose and helped open the eyes of people who have become desensitized to abortion.

Celebrate abortion

Wed Nov 4 2009 21:57

Dana, why can't we just see those pictures as celebrating abortion in America?

Resa

Wed Nov 4 2009 19:51

So, who do I contact to get reimbursed for how my hard earned cash was spent on this group and their offensive "educational" display.

It was such a beautiful, sunny day and when I first encountered this huge display I looked around for the opposing view. No matter what my personal beliefs are, as a university "event" I expect to see both sides of a controversial subject expressed equally. Surprise, no such luck.

Our campus has become a second home. What this educational display has taught me is that those who support no-choice apparently also believe that as students we should have no choice in where our money is being spent and who we are forced to listen to and watch unless we want to avoid half of our home for 2 days. Maybe that was their goal all along?

Mallory

Wed Nov 4 2009 15:12

To Jonathon: You are misreading the article. I am the author of what you quoted and I represent a feminist group on campus. We are not at all associated with those tasteless photos. Our goal yesterday was to try to correct the misinformation the anti-choice group was distributing. The group said that the only way to prevent abortion was abstinence; we say that there are other ways and passed out condoms. They said abortion leads to a higher risk of breast cancer; we cited a 2003 source from the National Cancer Institute that refuted this lie. Nowhere did this group represent the women who get abortions except to equate them with Nazis and lynch mobs; we sought to let ppl know that the women who get abortions are no different than any other women in America. Most of them are/ want to be in the future mothers and most have religious affiliations.

There is nothing wrong with being pro-life, but there is something wrong with instilling fear in women by either distributing completely false information or by misrepresenting the facts. This is exactly what Justice for All was doing and this is why they should not be allowed on campus.

Meg

Wed Nov 4 2009 13:40

JH says: "I find it odd that so many people find the displays "distasteful," yet have no comment about the reality that they depict - that a woman's own womb has become an extermination chamber. And that tens of millions of children in the womb have met their elimination, at the hands of their own mothers."

Really? So it would be completely ok for PETA to set up graphic displays of butchered animals on campus, or a peace group to set up graphic displays of children with their legs blown off by bombs? If people objected to such displays, you would find it "odd"?

Your name

Tue Nov 3 2009 22:11

Regardless of whether abortion is right or wrong, I do believe that the giant posters were extremely unnecessary and utterly disgusting. I mean, what about the people that tour the campus that are looking to go to college here?! What do they (especially the parents) think? Not very good PR if you ask me...

I'm willing to wager that the restaurants inside the union noticed a marked decrease in the sale of food the past few days...because I know that when I walked by them, I lost my appetite for the afternoon. As someone else said, the pictures repulse people and make them want to just keep walking and not want to inquire about their existence...they just want to get the hell outta there!!!

Pro-free speech

Tue Nov 3 2009 19:44

The answer to speech with which you do not agree with is more speech. They have these gruesome images up, yes, but how many people do you think they're affecting in a positive way? I would guess not many people walk out and think, "Oh, my opinion about abortion has TOTALLY changed." Most people walk out and go, "Jesus, that's horrible," regardless of their stance.

Think about how effective it would be for the abortion rights group on campus to set up a booth, or have a counter protest, as they did, and pass out literature. This passive action I would almost argue, if well planned out, is more effective for educating people on their cause than these images that resemble what it looks like if you threw up ketchup in the shape of a baby.

D

Tue Nov 3 2009 19:15

There is no place for this on campus. This is a subject that should be argued at a meeting somewhere, not in the middle of a university lawn. Although this little display of indecency does bring to light the boundrys some people are willing to break to make there arguments seem legitimate.

Besides the fact that there were no competent rebuttals from the speaker to questioners about abortion,the part that angers me the most is that my money was used to help this negligent campaign. The speaker for the anti abortion group, admitted after a prolonged interrogation by onlookers that he received money to speak from the SUAB. How could this happen?

Sqworl

Tue Nov 3 2009 18:26

A person who isn't pro-censorship,

Would pornographic images be acceptable? What about state secrets?Clearly free speech has SOME qualifications.

It's exactly these all-or-nothing approaches that are at the root of these intractable debates. Obscenity designed to shame those who oppose you is clearly neither effective nor well advised...it's just offensive.

As a side note, I would point out that open heart surgery is also very disgusting but that doesn't mean that people should avoid the procedure if it's in their best medical interests.

S-

JH

Tue Nov 3 2009 16:16

I find it odd that so many people find the displays "distasteful," yet have no comment about the reality that they depict - that a woman's own womb has become an extermination chamber. And that tens of millions of children in the womb have met their elimination, at the hands of their own mothers.

It is no less Godless, no less of a madness, than sending human beings into the crematories, simply because the State has proclaimed them to be sub-humans and, therefore, unworthy of life.

Bandwagon Patriot

Tue Nov 3 2009 15:34

So are they handing out birth control pills and condoms at this display?

Nicole

Tue Nov 3 2009 15:18

This is a highly distasteful and inappropriate display. My personal feelings on the abortion issue have nothing to do with the fact that I feel that this group should not be allowed to do this display on campus. The photos are extremely graphic and are visible from Willard. When I need to go from Willard to the Classroom building for class the easiest and quickest way is to walk directly through where they have their display. These images make me physically ill. I am forced to avoid that area and I feel as though I cannot go anywhere near Library Lawn, the Union, the Classroom Building, the Library or Willard without being subjected to these disturbing images. These people should not be allowed on campus with a display that makes students feel unwelcome on their own campus and makes students physically ill. If they want to hand out brochures fine, if they want to do a lecture fine. Just make it so if you want to see it you can and if you don't want to see it you don't have to. Don't force me to be subjected to something like this

jasmine

Tue Nov 3 2009 13:25

Get them off the campus!

concerned student/parent

Tue Nov 3 2009 11:58

My concern is for all of those who are under 18 and not college students who utilize our campus for early childhood education, field trips, or after school activities. I find the display utterly irresponsible and repulsive. I highly doubt that it is an effective method of education. I would find pamphelets more so and less offensive with the same images on the cover. Then I wouldn't have to worry about bringing my daughter to the library to do research or study.

Brittney

Tue Nov 3 2009 11:26

It is fine for people to have their own opinions on hot topics but I feel that forcing such images and opinions onto the entire student body is wrong. The displays are entirely too graphic and disrupt the collegiate setting of the university. Also this particular group does not allow any other opinions on the matter except their own claiming they are just expressing their freedom of speech. Such displays should not be allowed.

Double C

Tue Nov 3 2009 10:59

I am disgusted by this display. I understand what Justice for All is trying to do, but there are PLENTY of other ways to get a message across other than posting dead fetus pictures that are two stories tall. I am a major pro-life advocate, but I feel like this method of promoting an agenda was simply taking things a little too far. Hopefully in the future something a little more subtle will be used to promote an agenda.

Jonathan

Tue Nov 3 2009 10:36

You are right it usually doesn't cover material that is widely seen as offensive and is also unavoidable. So they could make a book (because that is easily avoidable by viewers). But they should not be displaying those images in public.

“We don’t want to be confrontational, but we do want to have the other side out there,” Carlberg said. Oh yeah... just some stripped flesh infants posing on money next to holocaust photos.

They have done little more than make themselves unapproachable.

How about saving back the money from Kinkos and glue sticks and sending it to an orphanage or adoption agency or some other organizations not based on shock but instead really helping people.